Preparing for our heavenly home

DailyBulletin.com

… Gordon B. Hinckley, president of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints taught about bringing blessings to others when he said: ”… We can all be a little kinder, a little more patient, a little more helpful. We can reach out to the very many who are in distress for any number of reasons. We can replace anger with love. We can put selfishness out of our lives. We can get on our knees and pray to the father in the name of Jesus, and then stand on our feet and reach out to bless the destitute, the poor, the oppressed and those in trouble… May each of you have some selfless, long to be remembered experience in bringing blessings to others.” …


Technorati : , , , , ,

Advertisements

Posted on July 30, 2006, in Mormonism/LDS Church. Bookmark the permalink. 7 Comments.

  1. Can we be a little kinder to Muslims? A little more patient? A little more helpful? Can we replace anger with love towards Muslims? Can we get on our knees and pray to the Father in the name of Jesus, and then reach out to bless the destitute, the poor, the oppressed, and those in trouble in the Muslim world? Can we do this while we drop bombs on them?

    The widening chasm between our religious beliefs (as Mormons) and some of our political beliefs (conservatives) is staggering. How Mormons could back Krauthammer and Kristol’s desires to wage war in the Middle East is dumbfounding.

    There is a massive difference between one defending himself or a nation defending its people, and an attempt to utterly alter the internal affairs of another nation. No righteous Nephite nation ever attempted to do this in the Book of Mormon, and no righteous nation of God ever attempted this.

    We must stand for peace, in all times and in all places. Standing for peace does not equal appeasing the enemy. Standing for peace means you will not strike your enemy. The battle against terrorism is not won by warfare. In fact, if you strike back, you immediately have lost. The sole purpose of terrorism is to get a violent response in return. That’s terrorism’s lifeblood. Violence. The spilling of blood. The more blood spilt, the more violence we will see.

    The Gospel of Jesus Christ, as President Hinckley has outlined in what you quoted, is about love, not war. It is about caring for others, and showing it. We cannot be for war and for Christ at the same time. It is impossible.

  2. Dan, I admit you have stunned me. So astonishing is your post I am bewildered.

    I am not being facetious nor do I mean to offend when I ask you a) how long have you been a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and b) have you ever read The Book of Mormon?

    Next, I will do the best I can to answer your post as best I can and as short as possible. The comments of yours I am responding to will begin and end with …

    …Can we be a little kinder to Muslims? A little more patient? A little more helpful? …

    I think you think I am anti-Muslim or something. Nothing could be further from the truth. To be clear, I am pro-Muslim but anti-militant Islam (Islamism). There is a significant difference between Islam and Islamism.

    In fact, I am so pro-Muslim that I have volunteered to help Dr. Jasser’s American Islamic Forum for Democracy (AIFD). BTW, Dr. Jasser’s, in case you did not know, is a Muslim who is anti-militant Islam (Islamism) too. So, if he, a Muslim who “hates” the evil of Islamism is fine with you, than I too, can “hate” that same evil without being anti-Muslim, can I not?

    …Can we replace anger with love towards Muslims?…

    I have no anger in the least towards Muslims or Islam. On the other hand, I cannot say that about militant-Islam (Islamism).

    …Can we get on our knees and pray to the Father in the name of Jesus, and then reach out to bless the destitute, the poor, the oppressed, and those in trouble in the Muslim world?…

    I would expect nothing less from any Christian or caring person.

    …Can we do this while we drop bombs on them?…

    I know of no democracy in the world dropping bombs on Muslims. Your point is illogical, thus invalid. Muslims are not the target of Israel or the U.S. However, the evil political ideology of Islamism (militant Islam) is something entirely different.

    …The widening chasm between our religious beliefs (as Mormons) and some of our political beliefs (conservatives) is staggering…

    Is it? Care to be specific about that?

    …How Mormons could back Krauthammer and Kristol’s desires to wage war in the Middle East is dumbfounding…

    I see; interesting. In other words, Mormons must subscribe to your political leanings or give up their Church membership? Since we are on the topic, pray tell, exactly what are your political leanings? I am entitled to know, especially since I am going to have to give mp Church membership unless I convert to your political view of the world.

    …There is a massive difference between one defending himself or a nation defending its people, and an attempt to utterly alter the internal affairs of another nation…

    Defending our allies is defending our nation.

    …No righteous Nephite nation ever attempted to do this in the Book of Mormon, and no righteous nation of God ever attempted this…

    Ah, have you forgotten how strongly LDS prophets preached against communism during the height of the Cold War for the express purpose of “an attempt to utterly alter the internal affairs of another nation”? The LDS leaders supported policies that helped to bring the demise of communistic USSR.

    …We must stand for peace, in all times and in all places. Standing for peace does not equal appeasing the enemy.
    What? Pacify and appeasement is the same thing. Are you a pacifist then?

    … Standing for peace means you will not strike your enemy…

    You are kidding, right? So America was wrong to get into WWII, because it did strike their enemy? When is it OK to strike your enemy?

    …The battle against terrorism is not won by warfare…

    Tell that to the Taliban.

    I think you need to remember the words of President Hinckley, “The terrible forces of evil must be confronted and held accountable for their actions… It is the terrorist organizations that must be ferreted out and brought down…

    “We of this Church know something of such groups. The Book of Mormon speaks of the Gadianton robbers, a vicious, oath-bound, and secret organization bent on evil and destruction. In their day they did all in their power, by whatever means available, to bring down the Church, to woo the people with sophistry, and to take control of the society. We see the same thing in the present situation.

    “We are people of peace. We are followers of the Christ who was and is the Prince of Peace. But there are times when we must stand up for right and decency, for freedom and civilization, just as Moroni rallied his people in his day to the defense of their wives, their children, and the cause of liberty (see Alma 48:10).

    “Now, brothers and sisters, we must do our duty, whatever that duty might be. Peace may be denied for a season. Some of our liberties may be curtailed. We may be inconvenienced. We may even be called on to suffer in one way or another. But God our Eternal Father will watch over this nation and all of the civilized world who look to Him.”

    http://www.lds.org/conference/talk/display/0,5232,23-1-225-27,00.html

    President Hinckley on the Iraq war, a war he supported:
    “In a democracy we can renounce war and proclaim peace. There is opportunity for dissent. Many have been speaking out and doing so emphatically. That is their privilege. That is their right, so long as they do so legally. However, we all must also be mindful of another overriding responsibility, which I may add, governs my personal feelings and dictates my personal loyalties in the present situation.

    “When war raged between the Nephites and the Lamanites, the record states that “the Nephites were inspired by a better cause, for they were not fighting for . . . power but they were fighting for their homes and their liberties, their wives and their children, and their all, yea, for their rites of worship and their church.

    “And they were doing that which they felt was the duty which they owed to their God” (Alma 43:45–46).

    “The Lord counseled them, “Defend your families even unto bloodshed” (Alma 43:47).

    “And Moroni “rent his coat; and he took a piece thereof, and wrote upon it—In memory of our God, our religion, and freedom, and our peace, our wives, and our children—and he fastened it upon the end of a pole.

    ““And he fastened on his headplate, and his breastplate, and his shields, and girded on his armor about his loins; and he took the pole, which had on the end thereof his rent coat, (and he called it the title of liberty) and he bowed himself to the earth, and he prayed mightily unto his God for the blessings of liberty to rest upon his brethren” (Alma 46:12–13).

    “It is clear from these and other writings that there are times and circumstances when nations are justified, in fact have an obligation, to fight for family, for liberty, and against tyranny, threat, and oppression.

    “When all is said and done, we of this Church are people of peace. We are followers of our Redeemer, the Lord Jesus Christ, who was the Prince of Peace. But even He said, “Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword” (Matthew 10:34).

    “This places us in the position of those who long for peace, who teach peace, who work for peace, but who also are citizens of nations and are subject to the laws of our governments. Furthermore, we are a freedom-loving people, committed to the defense of liberty wherever it is in jeopardy. I believe that God will not hold men and women in uniform responsible as agents of their government in carrying forward that which they are legally obligated to do. It may even be that He will hold us responsible if we try to impede or hedge up the way of those who are involved in a contest with forces of evil and repression.

    “And so I venture to say something about the war and the gospel we teach. I spoke of this somewhat in our October conference of 2001. When I came to this pulpit at that time, the war against terrorism had just begun. The present war is really an outgrowth and continuation of that conflict.

    http://www.lds.org/conference/talk/display/0,5232,23-1-353-27,00.html

    …In fact, if you strike back, you immediately have lost…

    I did not know Germany & Japan won WWII.

    …The sole purpose of terrorism is to get a violent response in return…

    That is an overly simplistic, naïve view of terrorist goals. Terrorist goals are as grandiose as believing their actions will drive the creation of an Islamic State, to as simple as using children as cannon fodder for the camera to score a political point.

    …The Gospel of Jesus Christ, as President Hinckley has outlined in what you quoted, is about love, not war. It is about caring for others, and showing it. We cannot be for war and for Christ at the same time. It is impossible…

    I have already addressed the fallacy of logic in this paragraph, but allow me to point out further the illogicality of your conclusion.

    One-third of The Book of Mormon is about war

    Wars were matters of great religious and political importance. So much so that God commanded Nephi to keep a record of the “the wars and contentions of [his] people” (1 Nephi 9:4)..

    What is more, Mormon, who abridged the great majority of the book named after him (Book of Mormon), was not just a prophet, he was a prophet-warrior. Point in fact, most all righteous leaders in the Book of Mormon were both religious leaders as well as military leaders.

    Other Book of Mormon prophet-warriors or righteous warriors include:

    – Nephi prepared swords after the manner of the sword of Laban and defended the his people in battle 2 Nephi 5:14, Jacob 1:10

    – Jacob, see Jacob 7:24-26

    – Enos, see Enos 1:20-24

    – Alam the Elder, see Alma 2:16

    – King Benjamin, commander-in-chief who used the sword of Laban in battle

    – Alma the Younger lead Nephite armies and fought in hand-to-hand combat

    – Heleman

    – Stripling Warriors

    – Captain Moroni

    – Moroni…to name a few…

  3. I don’t want to be calling you LDSPatriot all the time. What’s your name?

    Okay, so here is my response:

    I am not being facetious nor do I mean to offend when I ask you a) how long have you been a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and b) have you ever read The Book of Mormon?

    I’ve been a member long enough. and I’ve read the book of Mormon probably 40 or 50 times. But apparently, I need to adhere to YOUR political ideology to be a “real” Mormon.

    …Can we do this while we drop bombs on them?…

    I know of no democracy in the world dropping bombs on Muslims. Your point is illogical, thus invalid. Muslims are not the target of Israel or the U.S. However, the evil political ideology of Islamism (militant Islam) is something entirely different.

    Israel and America have both dropped bombs on Muslims. Whether they like it or not, Muslims (as well as your Islamists) are dying at our bombs. You may differentiate between Islamists and Muslims, but in the Muslim world, your attempt to separate the two is a failure. They do not believe you. This is why we are losing their hearts and minds. You may think your goals are noble, but unless you are able to convince them, your goals are in vain. This is why the battle against terrorism cannot be defeated by military actions. It is impossible.

    …The widening chasm between our religious beliefs (as Mormons) and some of our political beliefs (conservatives) is staggering…

    Is it? Care to be specific about that?

    Certainly. As long as conservatives continue advocating war in the world, they will be against the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

    …How Mormons could back Krauthammer and Kristol’s desires to wage war in the Middle East is dumbfounding…

    I see; interesting. In other words, Mormons must subscribe to your political leanings or give up their Church membership? Since we are on the topic, pray tell, exactly what are your political leanings? I am entitled to know, especially since I am going to have to give mp Church membership unless I convert to your political view of the world.

    hardly. I don’t care what you believe politically, but the fusion of neo-conservatism with the gospel of Jesus Christ is a contradition in terms. It is an oxymoron. One believes in aggressive warfare, something no righteous nation of God ever has done, while one believes in defensive warfare, something God has advocated to His people time and time again.

    …In fact, if you strike back, you immediately have lost…

    I did not know Germany & Japan won WWII.

    I was not talking about conventional warfare, but terrorism. Germany and Japan were conventional wars. In terrorism, if you strike back, they win.

    most all righteous leaders in the Book of Mormon were both religious leaders as well as military leaders.

    I have no problem with people joining the military. My sister is currently in Iraq. Let me say it this way. In the Book of Mormon, never have any righteous Nephites ever brought the war to the Lamanites or the Gadianton Robbers. For example, read 3 Nephi 3:20-21:

    20 Now the people said unto Gidgiddoni: Pray unto the Lord, and let us go up upon the mountains and into the wilderness, that we may fall upon the robbers and destroy them in their own lands.
    21 But Gidgiddoni saith unto them: The Lord forbid; for if we should go up against them the Lord would deliver us into their hands; therefore we will prepare ourselves in the center of our lands, and we will gather all our armies together, and we will not go against them, but we will wait till they shall come against us; therefore as the Lord liveth, if we do this he will deliver them into our hands.

    In the fight against terrorism, many comparisons have been made to the Gadianton Robbers. Yet, if we read this, it seems that the Lord has instructed the Nephites to not take the war to the Robbers, but rather wait in defense in their own lands.

    Now, you might bring up the War Chapters, as a more appropriate example. But even then, did Captain Moroni ever take the battle to Lamanite country? Did Captain Moroni ever actually start the fight? Is it not true that he actually waited in defense in a city for the Lamanites to strike first? Read chapter 43 of Alma.

    Notice in verses 19-22 that the Lamanites were about to come upon the Nephites on the land of Jershon, but upon seeing a very well defended Nephite army, including wearing breastplates, they retreated before even beginning to fight (did the Nephites under Captain Moroni give chase? No!). Instead, he went to Manti, the next Lamanite target and waited there until the Lamanites saw them again, turning back and “contending” with Lehi’s army in their rear. Notice, carefully, that Mormon says implicitly that it was the Lamanites who started the actual fighting.

    Moreover, as you continue the War Chapters, the Lamanites had actually taken control of many Nephite cities. Once repelling the Lamanites, did the Nephites ever go into Lamanite land to “take care of them?” Did they ever go into Lamanite land to finally wipe out this “continual threat,” from the Lamanites? No. Why not?

    There is again, a difference between defending your home and starting aggressive wars. Israel’s actions in Lebanon is partly a defensive action, but mostly aggressive. They wish to change the environment, rather than simply repelling the aggressors.

    So yes, I do believe America does not respect or even treat Muslims the same way they do Christians. Do you personally? My first post was never intended a personal critique of your person. I do not know who you are, and know nothing about you, except that you advocate Israel’s war on Lebanon. On that, I disagree with you vehemently. Otherwise, I’m sure you’re a great guy.

  4. Terrorists are like Gadianton Robbers. You cannot be kind to them. You just have wipe them out like the Nephites did. They didn’t try to understand them. they knew they were evil and they destroyed them. If you don’t then dissensions will arise and the nation will fall like in the Book of Mormon.

  5. Chris,

    can you share the verses in the book of Mormon where the Nephites went out and exterminated the Gadianton Robbers?

  6. Helaman11:10

    O Lord, behold this people repenteth; and they have swept away the band of Gadianton from amongst them insomuch that they have become extinct, and they have concealed their secret plans in the earth.

    http://scriptures.lds.org/en/hel/11/10#10

  7. ldspatriot,

    please read the previous several verses:

    7 And it came to pass that the people saw that they were about to perish by famine, and they began to remember the Lord their God; and they began to remember the words of Nephi.
    8 And the people began to plead with their chief judges and their leaders, that they would say unto Nephi: Behold, we know that thou art a man of God, and therefore cry unto the Lord our God that he turn away from us this famine, lest all the words which thou hast spoken concerning our destruction be fulfilled.
    9 And it came to pass that the judges did say unto Nephi, according to the words which had been desired. And it came to pass that when Nephi saw that the people had repented and did humble themselves in sackcloth, he cried again unto the Lord, saying:

    where does it state that the Nephites actually removed the Gadianton Robbers from amidst the population? It seems that what actually happened is that the Lord caused a famine that made the Nephites realize they needed to remove the “ideology” not the people. What they did is repent, not kill people.

    I think this is a good lesson to learn.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

%d bloggers like this: